Better Meetings, Happier Teams: The Art of Improv in Business

Create Art Podcast Interview Andrew Davies hello friend.This is Timothy Keem O'Brien, your head instigator for Create Art Podcast, where I bring my over 30 years of experience in the arts and educational world to help you tame your inner critic and create more than you consume. So I'm continuing on with my slew of interviews. I had a lot of interviews this year so far here in 2025.And the person you're about to hear, his name is Andrew Davies. Now, I met him in Podmatch, which is a service I use to connect guests with podcast hosts and I do receive a small commission for that.But again, as I like to tell you, I'm only going to bring on the people that I think are going to definitely assist you with your creative endeavors. So let's talk about Andrew right here, right now.And we just, I think when you hear this interview, you're going to hear a lot of fun with this one for sure.Now, Andrew is the Better meetings director of Artly Working, which uses improv and theater to help build stronger teams made up of happier people and higher performers. Now, since starting it in 2019, Artly Working has led programs with over 100 innovative companies like Netflix, Roblox, Meta and Google.I'm sure you've heard of these. If you haven't, you're living underneath a rock.Now, with training and improvisation from the Magnet Theater and Facilitation from Georgetown University, Andrew is passionate about bringing these skills to strengthen company culture and people experience.His Better Meetings workshop helps teams together with purpose and play, designing and facilitating more effective meetings that people actually want to attend. And I'm just going to stop right there for a second. So at work and at home, I have a mug that says I survived another meeting.That should have been an email. And I got to tell you, we really need Andrew where I work, where I do my day to day work.So I definitely want to talk to my boss and see if we can hire Andrew in on this one. And that's one of the reasons why I wanted to interview him, because he's showing how you can use your art in a corporate setting. And why not?I mean, we're talented. You're talented in what you do, I'm talented in what I do, and why not bridge that gap?Now, Andrew has won several awards for his groundbreaking work, including the Young Pioneer Award from Jewish Education Project and the Pomegranate Prize from the Covenant Foundation. Andrew is also the co founder Caricatures Theatrical Walking Tours where the past visits you and the Bible Players, which is a Jewish comedy team.When Andrew's not working, he can be found making up songs with his toddler's Miller and Oren bike, riding around Philadelphia or leading a free tennis camp in the neighborhood. I have bestowed upon him the honor of being a twin dad, even though he is. Kids aren't the same age.Anybody that has two kids like that and does all his stuff that he does automatically gets assigned twin dad status in my book. All right, I'm going to step out of the way here for this interview. And here it is. Andrew Davies appearing on Create Art podcast.I know you're going to love it. I have the pleasure of speaking with Andrew Davies. Andrew, how is it going for you this evening?

It's going pretty well. Yeah. Doing good. Kids are asleep. Feeling good.

Awesome. Awesome. That is good. I know how that feels when they're asleep because I've got the twins, and when they're asleep, the fun can begin.

That's right. That's right.

Well, I'm really glad that you came on the show. Here we've been talking back and forth using Pod Match, and something that really caught my eye was improv with you. And I've done improv.I'm originally from Chicago, and, you know, you can't live in Chicago and not do improv. It's just, you know, it's that deep dish pizza and whatnot.But one question I had about that that I hear a lot is, do you really need to be funny to do improv?

Yeah, it's a great question. And I love that you. You did some improv in your life in Chicago.I think between that and deep dish, definitely the healthier thing to do for your life, you know, so, you know, do you need to be funny to do improv? You really don't.I think improv, one of the kind of common misunderstandings is that improv is really about being funny, telling jokes, being quick, being witty, and that. That's the whole goal of it.I think improv is really teaching you how to be real, how to be genuine, how to be in the moment, how to be honest and authentic.And I think that improv really strips away a lot of the, you know, preparations that we have in life, the way we disguise ourself with clothes or preparation or different things. And it just says, okay, you are making things up in the moment. Everything is in this moment. Can you be real? Can you be honest?Can you build something together? And so what I love about improv is really that everyone can do it. And I think Everyone learns a lot about themselves when they do it.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Because I can tell you I'm not the most funniest guy on the face of the planet, but when I trust my scene partners, something happens.And I don't know what that is because I'm not, you know, my art is not improv. I'm just, you know, the big dumb guy that comes on the, you know, on the stage and, you know, does stupid things. But maybe the Chris Farley type guy.But sure, I know that when I'm working and collaborating with the team, it comes out beautiful. So I love improv. I really do.

Yeah.

Now I work for the federal government. How can I use improv in my workplace?Because a lot of our listeners that are out there, they're putting their toe into doing art, doing whatever they want to do, but how can I take that improv? Take an improv class and use that at work.

Yeah.So I think an improv class is really great for anyone to practice the tools of being a better listener, a better communicator, and really a collaborator as a teammate. So improv is really rarely a solo sport. It's almost always two or more people, and that's because you're making things up from scratch.And I think we do a lot of improvising in our workplace all the time, but we don't necessarily have the tools of how to be a good collaborator. So, you know, one of the kind of famous maxims if people know anything about improv is yes, and.Which is really not always having to say yes or agree with what people are saying, but what it means is saying yes to their idea first, acknowledging hearing, seeing their idea, and then wanting to add on to it.So I think very often in the workplace, one of the things I think we can really notice just in our own heads is how often our first reaction in our brain, not even out loud, necessarily. Maybe. No. Right. When someone says, hey, this month, I think we should.We should try a new marketing campaign where we all, you know, eat lunch at the same table and we film it, and you're in your brain, you might be saying, no, that wouldn't work. That's dumb. We're not actors. Or, that wouldn't work. We tried something like that last year.And so I think the challenge of improv to us is to invite us to try to say yes in our minds first and then add on to it. Because oftentimes ideas get shut down before they even really get to grow.And improv is all about taking A little idea, a little moment, and making it grow. And I think too often in our workplaces, we never get to the big ideas.We never get to the exciting ideas, because our instinct is to see the negative right away and to shut it down. So I think it just can start in our own minds with just noticing how we react and then changing it.A really simple game I love to play just to get people noticing how quickly we can be judged judgmental. It's just a game called band names. Right? We all have bands like that we love.And band names, you can play with two or more people and anyone just says a band name so they can just look around you for ideas if you don't have anything. I can look around myself right now, and it's like, you know, water cup, phone case, right. Computer screen.And the other people in the group just have to say, I love it. And then we have a new band name. And all it is is to notice how in our minds, when we're not. We don't really have a band. There's no real stakes.We're not really deciding anything. How quickly we still, in our minds, are like, computer screen, that's a terrible band name. Right.Like, we instantly start judging it, even though there's no consequence.So to practice noticing that judgment in our mind and try and just like, tamp that down and let the ideas come through and see if you can do 10 or 20 or 30 band names and then pause and say what was great that came out of that. Right? And if we never did those initial terrible band names or unexciting band names, we wouldn't find the one that we actually love.You know, Revolver toothpaste or whatever we love and finding that. So I think just noticing our tendency to say no and inviting ourselves to try to say yes.

I like that. And I have so many band names that some of them I can't say on the air because of the language. So, you know, for sure, well, let's.Let's dive a little bit, a little bit into you. Because this, you know, using improv in the workplace does fascinate me. But let's. Let's find out kind of what makes you tick a little bit.When you look back at your early career, is there a moment where you felt like, hey, I found my calling. I've made it. This is what I want to do?

Yeah, I think there's a few of those moments early on in my life, and I think that for all artists, as you know, your podcast is really about creating art. Helping people jump into art. I think the biggest thing is raising your hand and giving it a try. And that is really the toughest thing.So the first moment where I remember doing that, I was in fifth grade. I was 10 years old. And our teacher, Mrs. Aaron, did a musical every year with our class. And the audition process was very simple.She gave us each a note card, and she told us to write on the note card if we wanted a big part or a small part and singing or non singing. And so we all got that same choice. And I thought about it for a minute, and I was, like, a little nervous about it. I was like, I don't know.I've never really done a show. And I was like, big part singing, non singing. I don't really know if I have a good voice. You know what singing. Like, why not?And so we did Fiddler on the Roof that year, and I got to play Tevye, the lead in this show. And I'm convinced to this day it's because I was the only boy that probably put big parts singing, right?And so just by raising my hand and saying, yeah, I'm up for singing, I really think that's why I got the role, because we didn't audition, we didn't do anything. And so for me, that was a light bulb moment of how scary it is to raise our hand, how scary it is to try, but how satisfying it can be.And then I loved the experience so much. That was kind of when I first caught the bug.And then, really in high school, I had an incredible musical theater director who really convinced all of us that we were putting on a Broadway show.I went to a tiny suburban Jewish high school, and he really convinced us that this was critical, that this show was amazing, that we were Broadway level, and we believed it. And so I think the show came out pretty well, considering, you know. And so I think doing the Music man with him was. Was a big moment for me.And then for me in New York City, I studied improv at the Magnet Theater.And it was really there where I found that improvisation was the form of theater that allowed me to kind of bring my creativity, bring my voice, and really challenged me to really be honest and myself and not be able to just hide behind a character or a costume or a scene, but be my genuine self. And it also really unlocked for me how powerful our imaginations are to create a scene and create a story.That when people would watch a show, you can just jump into it and say, something is true, and then it is. I Remember one show on my team, the Commotion? We would make up a musical every week, a musical show every Tuesday.And we got the suggestion of, like, fish. That was just the suggestion, the word fish. And we started a scene, and two of us were tuna in a tank together at, like, a sushi restaurant.And we were trying to escape, and that was our scene. So we just said, we're tuna in a tank. And suddenly we are, right. The audience went with us. We didn't need pyrotechnics, costumes.And so that has really stuck with me in all of my work. And I really encourage people is that for storytelling, for play.We all have such rich imaginations that we don't need a lot to get our imagination going. So I love that about improv, that we can do it anywhere, we can do it anytime.And it's really just building on all of our brilliant imaginations in our minds to paint the scene.

And we can do it cheaply, too, say, which I know a lot of businesses are like, how do I do this cheaply? Well, you can pay Andrew a lot of money and he can show you how to do it cheaply.

Exactly, exactly. And it really is like.I think one of the beautiful things about improv and when we come into workplaces and we work on things with folks, is when you get these tools, they are just a renewable resource. They are something you can come back to whenever you're feeling stuck and come back to these activities, come back to these approaches.Games as simple as band names or ones that get much more complicated, and you can always come back to them to kind of renew that sense of team, team and the spirit and the focus that you have as a group. So, yeah, it really is like the gift that keeps on giving, and I love it so much that way.

How do you, you know, working for corporations, you know, coming into the work workplace like that, how do you balance that corporate culture with the art culture?You know, there's a misnomer that, you know, all of us artists are sitting here smoking cigarettes in berets wearing, you know, black fingernail polish and black eyeliner. Just for the record, I'm not wearing that tonight, but in case I was, you know.But how do you balance that and how do you feed yourself as an artist by working in that. In that sphere?

Yeah, that's a great question. You know, it definitely starts with listening, as all great improv does.So listening to the leaders of the organization, to the folks in the organization, to get a sense of what is their company culture, what are Things like how. How much do they collaborate in general? What is the. What is the vibe like in general? And we always start our sessions by tell people.We're not asking you to become, you know, a traveling Shakespearean actor today. All we're asking you to do is to notice where you're at in your comfortability and just try and turn it like one little click.Just try and challenge yourself and turn it one little click. So for some people, that means speaking at all in any improv game is going to take all their courage. And we're like, great, amazing.You stepped in and you gave a suggestion that was great. For other people, they're going to be more comfortable presenting, and they may want to jump into some more complicated games.So everyone's starting at their own place, and I think recognizing that and. And letting people know that they are their own barometer of, like, what.What the success looks like, I think, you know, I really feel that everyone is an artist. I really believe that in every profession, in every place.So I think that while people are a little scared initially to jump into things, they really find their creativity and find their voice. I often feel that we need to treat kids more like adults and adults more like kids. You know, I think.I think it was Picasso maybe, that said that we are all artists as children, and then we need to find that again when we get older.When I teach improv in school settings, in elementary schools, and I ask for a volunteer, almost every hand shoots up every time because kids recognize this is going to be fun. I'm going to enjoy this. I want to be part of it. With adults, I rarely even ask for volunteers. I just say, okay, next game is Tim and Jennifer.Come on up. Right? Because I know that being put on the spot is so scary for us.We become so afraid of making a mistake, afraid of failing, that we need that kind of encouragement.And so I think giving that encouragement to people, once people see that it's kind of a safe space they can play together, people really jump into it. And I think, you know, that's what we've gotten better at at artly working.Myself and my co founder, Dave Classko, is really bridging the world of artists and companies and corporations. And we've learned some of their language, you know, thinking in quarters, which is something I never really did before, and.And things like that, their timeline and schedule. But, you know, we have so much more in common than separates us. And I always tell them, like, I'm not an expert in your industry.That's not why I'm here. I'm an expert in people, in communication, in collaboration and teamwork. Right. And that's why I'm here.So I'm not trying to tell you that the way you're doing your particular work is. Is wrong or different. I'm trying to share with you tools that I think are useful to your group.And, you know, like I was saying, starting with listening, we always get a sense of what they're hoping to improve on. Is it really, like, morale? That's a trouble? Is it that we have a hard time following through on projects when we start them?Is it that we have a hard time, you know, staying in touch or communicating? So it varies that way. But, yeah, I think we can bridge those worlds.Like I said, there's an artist in all of us, so everyone can speak that language, too. I think.

I. I love how you said that, because I have been preaching that for. Oh, gosh. I don't want to say how old I am.Everybody knows I'm 52 at the time of this recording, you know, But I have been. You know, that's something that I discovered early in my. In my journey, is that we, you know, we're all artists, and we all have that creative.That creative spark in each and every one of us.And I like the quote by Picasso where, you know, we're all, you know, start off as art, you know, start off, you know, painting as an artist, and then we're always continually trying to get back to that. Amen to that.

Yeah.

How do you. And I think you hinted at it just a little while ago, but how do you overcome the reluctance when you're walking into a corporate setting?Because, again, people think us artists are, you know, in the berets and the cigarettes and all the makeup and all that kind of stuff. How do you overcome that and really get your foot in the door?

I think that when people first start, everyone's a little bit nervous, unsure what to expect, but that as we play together, really starts to build trust. So I think we start really simply and really small, and we work up to harder things.So I think when people think of improvisation, they immediately jump to the greatest performers in the world performing. Maybe they think of Whose Line Is It Anyway?Or, you know, Second City or some of the stars they know from Saturday Night Live and those shows doing improv. And, you know, that's really like level 10 of improv. Right? And so we want to encourage people that we're starting really simple.So one of the things I love to do Is starting with non verbal activities, right? Starting with activities where we just get to move our bodies. Sometimes I invite people to just kind of like pass a sound around the circle, right?So we're not even asking you to make any word choices to think of anything, Just asking you to pass the sound or just ask you to silently do a mirror activity, right?Just silently mirroring another person in our movements can get us to think about our body, to start to get comfortable with the idea of play without asking us for really any high level creativity or thinking out of the box. Because I think it's really the pressure we put on ourselves that's a worry. And so when people see they can do it, they just feel so much better.I, I think so much of what I love about improv is that it lets us play and lets us fail, make mistakes and realize that we're okay and gonna be okay. And I think that when people see they can play games, if they mess up a game, we just try the game again.It's not the end of the world that they start to get comfortable with it. And there's also an exhilaration that they find when they try something scary they weren't sure they can do.Like one game I will build to maybe about half an hour, an hour into a session is a game I love called speech, where everyone takes turns stepping into the middle of a circle and improvising a speech. And the way it works is they say, I am sick and tired of.And someone from the outside of the circle who's not them suggests an object, a noun, something simple. It can't be people or because we don't want to be mean. And I don't want to be complicated because I don't want people to be put on the spot.I don't want it to be like the economy and to have people have to get in their heads, right? I always encourage you just look around the room. I'm always like light bulbs we hate, you know, posters, books, whatever it is.And then the person in the middle has to say three reasons they're sick and tired of it. Books. They're too hard to read. I always drop mine in the toilet when I'm reading. And the pages are always ripped, right?And it doesn't matter what the three reasons are. We all like clap like maniacs. And I see the fear when people step, take their turn to step into the middle and how scary it can be.And then how good they feel knowing that the whole group is going to support them. And games like That I always say to the team, it's not about the person in the middle.It's all about the support and culture of safety and support that the whole circle is making. So it's up to the circle to make it easy for that person in the middle.And that's really, for me, like a central metaphor for the workplace is what are you doing as a circle to make sure that whenever one of you is in the middle, you know everyone has your back. Right. You have the support of everyone on your team.So I hope that that feeling of the support you have from your team really sticks with people, and they know that when it's their turn to give a big presentation, you know, to send out an important email, whatever it is in your organization, that you have the support of those people in the circle. It's really a circle of support.

That, that is awesome. I, I, oh, my gosh, we need you. Come on over. We need you.

Yeah. Yeah.

I can't be the only one preaching this kind of stuff in my job, so.

Yeah. Yeah. And oftentimes, you know, it helps to have someone from the outside come in and introduce this. Right.Because if each of us in our workplace tried to introduce it, it might be read by our co workers as like, oh, you think you know more than me, or you think you're a better teammate than me, when that's not really what we're saying. Right. But when I come into the workplace, in some ways it's easier, right. Because I'm an outsider.I'm, I'm not telling you what are right or wrong about your dynamics. I'm just helping to give you tools and help, help you to grow. And so it can really, can really be great to jumpstart things, I think, in a nice way.

Something that, you know, because I, I'm kind of corporate. I'm, you know, federal government, so that's, that's corporate. Ish, Something we all hate.And I have a coffee mug that says, I survived another meeting. That should have been an email. So let's talk about meetings. How, how can I use improv to make a meeting better?I know, you know, before you're talking about, you know, having everyone there and creating that, that, that circle of support, which I think is awesome, but how can I use improv when I'm leading a meeting?

So I think when we're leading a meeting, the first thing is to check in with ourselves before the meeting to make sure we know why we're having this particular meeting. Right.Too often in our workplace, meetings get put on the calendar or we meet every Monday and that becomes the focus of the meeting or there is no focus. Right. And so I created, with Artly working, a better meetings template, we call it.And I really created that because I wanted to give something for people who maybe only had five minutes before a meeting to check in with themselves about why they were having that meeting. So just taking like five minutes to check in can be so important. If you have an hour, great. But we don't always have that.But I think just stopping ourselves five or ten minutes before. So I think improv can really help us to think about the group.And one of the things that's defining for improv is that everyone is participating is that the program is interactive. And so I think the number one metric to look at of whether a meeting was successful or not, worthwhile or not, was it a meeting or not?Was, was it interactive or was it frontal? Right. Was it participatory and everyone's participating, or was it, you know, a speech and putting people to sleep? Right.If it could have been a podcast like you said, if it could have been an email, it wasn't really a meeting, right? It was a verbal email. It was a. It was an in person podcast. And that's fine if that's what people sign up for, right?If you sign up to see a speech, great, you see a speech. But a meeting really should include everyone.And the reason is because the reason you're meeting together is because there's magic that happens in the space that you're meeting together is that ideas can grow in the group and can grow together. So a couple ways you can specifically use improv. Right.One, like I was saying, is kind of to kick off brainstorming and to brainstorm in the mindset of yes. And so you could start with something like band names with a partner to get your brain going.And you could come to every meeting saying, I want to make sure there's a moment of every meeting where we're asking the team to brainstorm and we're going to say yes and to whatever they say in the moment of the meeting. Right. If you're the boss, right. And you're running the meeting, you may know in your mind 100 reasons why.Some suggestions will be difficult, but it's really valuable during that time you're together not to waste time on the negative of like, well, here's the 10 reasons why we can't do a company picnic.Just say, great, tell me about the company picnic you want to see and they'll describe it, and you may not end up doing that specific idea, but you might later say, you know, they talked about that company picnic a lot, but I wonder if we could just do something simple. We, like. We bring in blankets, and we just, like, sit on the floor in our auditorium, and we have a picnic at the building or whatever it is.I think if you. If you encourage that, that improv, that brainstorming. Yes. And mindset, that can be. That can be so huge.And I think another thing is to notice the energy of the meeting. Right. Sometimes we go with the best intentions for things to be interactive, for things to be participatory, but the energy just drops.That people are fading. People are distracted on our computers, it's very hard to stay focused. Right.Like when we're speaking now, I made sure to close every tab on my computer. I'm turning off notifications. I don't want to be bothered by anything else. And that's really hard in our meetings to have that focus.So to invite people to, like, be in the room, really try and be present, like improv. And if we see people fading, pause for a moment, and let's think of what we can do. We could just, like, do some wiggles. Stand up and wiggle around.We could do the mirror activity. The one person could just stand up. As a leader, you could start copying.Just ask everyone to mirror you, just to make everyone move around in a fun way. And I guarantee when you jump back into the conversation, folks will have more energy.So I think oftentimes people worry that if they do improv, if they do a piece of movement, that this will take away from the productivity of their meeting.And what I want to challenge is that if you're not having an interactive meeting, if people aren't engaged and energized, you're not being productive already. Like, you've already lost people. So I think that's so important.And, you know, after every program that I lead, we always talk about for ourselves internally. Two things. Highlights. What were the highlights? And Abby's. This is something that really I learned from my wife and I love, which is even better. Ifs.So it'd be even better if we did that. So if. If everyone did that after a meeting, whoever led the meeting, you said, okay, what were the highlights that meeting? What was the best part?And how could I make it even better if we did something else? Right? So I think those are some. Some tools you can use.

Awesome. I'm stealing that. I am definitely stealing that.

Good, good. You can't steal it. I gave it to you.

Oh, well, there you absolutely. You know, we're still going to have people out there that are like, I can't do this kind of stuff, or they're real introverts.My wife, I'm all out there. I'm like, let's go. And I met her in theater. She's the introvert. She would not.I mean, she would not stand in that circle and be like, no, you know, I'm not going to do that. How do you handle somebody that's an introvert like that? And how are you sensitive kind of to their.To their, you know, overall mental kind of stuff when you're doing something, when you're doing a presentation like that?

Yeah.We work with a lot of tech and health tech companies, and that's often something that we hear early on is like, you should know our team has a lot of introverts. We're a very introverted team. And we always say, that's. That's great.You know, I mean, on one level, I think the binary of extroverted introvert is one of those things in life that we decide at moments, I'm an extrovert, I'm an introvert. The truth is, we are all both right in different circumstances, in different spaces.Each of us is super comfortable and super willing to put ourselves out there, and in other spaces, we're not right. And it may. It may be the opposite, but I think it's.It's helping people to see that improv is not about being the loudest, the funniest, the wackiest, the craziest. That's not what we're looking for. I'm looking for the best listeners, the most supportive, the best teammates.And I think the introverts are sometimes amazing at that. Right.Sometimes it's the extroverts that are challenged, because I'm asking them to pause running, running away with their ideas, and to listen more and interact with folks. And sometimes when folks are a little more introverted, they start a little more slowly and they can build together, and that's great.So they really do a great job.And I think one of the nice things about improv that's great for folks who feel like they're introverts is that the focus is on the group, not on yourself.You know, Stephen Colbert, in a commencement speech that he gave, talked about how improv is all about serving others, and it's about getting out of our own mind and realizing that our role on any improv team in any Game in any meeting, in any space is to serve others, is to make the other people look good and to support them. Right. So for introverts, like maybe your wife or other folks, to say to them, your role is not to be the loudest and in front and the funniest.If you can be the best supporter of the group, that's amazing.And that's often the most valuable person at an organization or in a meeting is the person that's just like really nodding along and excited with every idea. Right. They're just their person. That's just like, yeah, that's great. That's great, Tim. That's great, Andrew. I love that. Right.And so just that energy and that support can be really nice. And so I think it really is for everyone. And introverts and extroverts, all welcome.

Absolutely.Because I know in you were saying how we're all introverts and extroverts, you know, kind of, you know, all, you know, and a nice combination of, of that. I know for me, if I'm going to a conference, I am the introvert.I'm just, you know, if I'm not presenting, I'm like, you know, I'm in a new place but you know, you get me in my office and I'm singing Frank Sinatra every morning at six in the morning just to keep myself awake. And that's what I do. But that's why they're not going to listen to me. They're going to listen to you.Unless you're going to bring, you know, singing some Frank Sinatra in one of your presentations.

Right, right, right, sure. Yeah. That's a good new one. I like that.

All right, cool. You can, you can have that one. That's yours.

Okay, great. That's mine. I'm going to run with it.

Well, I do want to bring up something. You, you have an upcoming book called Participate coming up. Can you talk to us a little bit about that when it's coming out?Don't give too much away because we want people to go buy it. But can you talk about participate for us?

Yeah. So I'm working on the book this year. I'm a few chapters into the writing and looking to release it in 2026.And the book is called Participate and I'm really thinking about it as, as opposed to a self help book, a community help book. And so the idea of Participate is really to help you notice your own fears about participating.How and when you're able to participate and not able to participate, how you're Able to jump in more and do more of what you want to do.That's kind of the first half of the book is some of the tools of improv, the tools that I've learned and the research I've done over the years about how to be more participatory, how to engage. And then the second half of the book is really focused on you as the leader of a group, you as a leader in your community.How do you help to lift other people up? How do you help other two people to participate? And I really feel like all of us, how I said all of us are artists.I really think all of us are leaders as well. So we may be a leader in the workplace, running meetings, as you said, or running a team.We may be the person that hosts, you know, a dinner, dinner parties often, or host board game parties, or helps lead a neighborhood garden and leads the cleanup.And so helping people think about how they can get others to participate, how they can make it a safer space for others and to join, is really the goal of the book.So it's really for anyone that either feels stuck and wants to do more of themselves, wants to be their more authentic self, or feels that they're doing that, but wants to help others, wants to know how to be a better leader and help others to participate.Because I realized that's what kind of connects my different projects and my different work, is that I really want everyone to see that they're an artist, a leader, and that they really can do amazing things. There's this teaching, this Jewish teaching from the rabbis that I love. That is Ezehu Chacham halomed Mikola Adam, which translates as who is wise?One who learns from every person. And if I had to say, like, one mantra for life, that's it for me. It's like, I think we can learn from everyone.And I want to help everyone see that they have something to share, they have something to teach.

That is awesome. That is awesome. What's something that you've learned while writing? You know, it's not finished yet.You're starting it up, and it sounds like you've got a good outline. And, you know, listen to some previous episodes, because I've got some publishers that would love to have that book, you know, push it out there.I'm just saying I'm great.Yeah, but is there something that you've learned while writing the book that you were like, oh, you know, it just kind of clicked for you, you know, doing improv and being very physical. You know, you have that kind of a learning and that kind of aha moment.But writing that book, has there been some something that you're like, oh, I never thought of it that way.

Yeah.I think it's been interesting to try to put into words as succinctly as possible, kind of some of the takeaways of improv and the lessons for ourselves. You know, I'll just share from the chapter I was writing today. I was writing a lot about.One of the things that I love about improv is about focusing on the good and appreciating the good. I had a teacher, an improv teacher named Lewis Kornfeld who said that as improvisers, we don't have time to focus on what's not working.We have to notice what is working. We have to be like heat seeking missiles for the good in our scene because we're building something together and that's what we need to find.And that in our lives, we need to be better and better about trying to see what is good in something rather than what's negative in something. So the next time we go to a movie, say, what was the best part of that movie? What did that movie do really well?Even if overall we'd give the movie a D. Right? Same with like, if we go to a party or a meeting at work, and overall it was a D. What part of it was an A?Like, what part of it was the good that we can build on, and that's our role as improvisers, is to be the ones that notice the good and lift up the good. So I think that's something I'm really thinking about. And how we can practice that in our own lives has been something I've been reflecting on.

That's awesome. That's. And there is something, you know, to be said about getting it down on a piece of paper or a computer screen or something like that.That really, for me, anyways, it really strikes home that, okay, yeah, you know, I've.I've done all this improv, I've done all this theater, you know, I've done all these podcasts, but when I put it down on a piece of paper, I'm just like, wow. And then I can pull things out of that.Now this is more kind of a personal question, a little bit of fun here because, you know, you're improv and I want, I want you to have a fun time here with us. So if there's one author or improv star that you could have a conversation with here, and I Just wave my magic wand and they magically appear.Who would it be and what would you talk to them about?

Oh, there's so many great people that I would love to talk to.

And you can't say me because you're already talking to me.

I'm already here. I'm already living the dream. You know, a personal star I was just talking about yesterday that was really influential is Amy Sedaris.A lot of people might know David Sedaris, her brother, who is an amazing comedic author and writer. Amy Sedaris is an incredible actor, improviser, writer, performer, really just like living artist, living art project. She's amazing.She co created a show with Stephen Colbert and Paul Danello called Strangers with Candy, which was really influential to me in my high school years because it was so funny, so outside the box. She's so creative, and she's so unafraid of being strange, which is so amazing to me.And I think I struggle with that of not being afraid to be weird, to be strange, to try things. So she's really been an inspiration to me in trying things. Like she.She did a whole show where in Strange with Candy, she plays an older, uglier version of herself and wears a fat suit the whole show she wears at home for some family's holidays in a hilarious way. And she did not mind that she looked ridiculous because she was like, this is for the character. This is for the story.And I think so for so many of us, our ego gets in our way and prevents us from trying those ridiculous ideas that we have. So for me, she's someone that doesn't have that fear and is willing to be ridiculous. And I would love to talk to her and talk to her about that. Yeah.

Okay, so I'll have her call your people up and we'll make it happen for you.

That's perfect.

Done and done.

Done and done.

All right, well, that's what I. That's all I have for you here today. Andrew, thank you so much for talking with me today about improv, about how we can use improv in.In our day jobs, and just everything that you're doing, I think it's a wonderful service. And I am myself, I am, you know, taking my artistry and, you know, putting it towards business as well. So it's great.I'm sitting here learning at your feet, going, okay, this can be done, and I don't have to sell my soul for it. So that is fantastic. Thank you so much, Andrew, for sharing your knowledge and your experience with us.

Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's just wonderful.And I hope everyone listening feels a little more encouraged to try things, to get out there and to be the artists that they were when they were a kid.

Exactly.And if you're, you know, at a company that, you know, you're like me with the mug saying, hey, you know, I survived another meeting, shouldn't have been an email. Andrew's website and all that are is going to be in the show notes.So I'm just saying, if you don't like where you're working, have Andrew come in and, you know, jazz it up a bit.

We can change it a lot. We'll change it for the better together, definitely.

Excellent. Great. Well, thank you very much.

Thanks so much.

All right. Thank you so much for tuning in and listening to this interview with Andrew Davies. A lot of fun times were had in this interview.He's a theater guy, he's an improv guy, and that immediately puts him really high on my list for somebody to listen to. And he's taking his art into the corporate world, which I find fantastic.I've done it in my job, and I know you can do it in your job, and hopefully you've gotten some insights on how you can do it, how you can fit that in to your, you know, to your 9 to 5, even if it's overnights or, you know, whenever you're working now, you're probably asking yourself, hey, Tim, how did you get Andrew? Well, in the beginning, I told you, I use PodMatch. And my affiliate link is in the show notes there for you.So if you have something you want to share and be on a ton of great podcasts, check out podmatch. Now, if you're a podcaster and you're looking for guests again, podmatch is the way to go.You get a, you know, as a host, you get a small commission for the interviews that you do. You, you know, you. You get to decide if it airs or not.What I do with my guests is I let them hear this before you do, and if there's anything that they don't like in it, we take it out. And if I don't think that it's going to benefit you, I don't put it out there. So check out PodMatch.If you're a guest or if you're a host and you need to reach out and, you know, like Andrew did here with me, reach out. And you never know what you're going to get, and you may have your next best friend, you Never know.Another service that I use is called Podcast Beacon, and this is for my podcast host out there. So what it is is they give you a wearable, whether it be kind of like a wristband or a key fob or even a business card.And let's say you're at a conference or you're at the grocery store and you're like, hey, you know, talking about your podcast, which us podcast hosts do. You can have that person that you're talking to put their phone over your wearable and it'll take them right to the website.There is not a business card to lose. There's none of that jazz. But they do have business cards.If you have to have that, you know, you can just have the person wave their phone over it and you buy one and done. I do get a small commission if you use my affiliate link there. But I know the guy that runs it, Matthew Passi, fantastic guy.And definitely I wouldn't promote it on my show if I didn't believe in it and if I didn't use it. So check that out for yourself. Podcast Beacon.And the last thing that I'm going to be promoting, I know I've got a lot of promotions, but I save them for the end for you hardcore listeners. Listeners. So I started up my own business this year in 2025. It's called TKB Podcast Studio.And that's where I help my clients and I lead them through all the noise with quiet professionalism. When it comes to their podcast.I take them through soup to nuts, you know, tip to tail on how to get that podcast out there, and I produce it for them, help them promote it, give them ideas on what their podcast should be. If you've ever thought about starting a podcast, go to tkbpodcaststudio.com you can check out my portfolio there.If it works with you, with what you want to do, definitely shoot me an email.Now, if you want to be on this show or if you have ideas for the show, email me timothyreateartpodcast.com you know, some of my best ideas come from you, you know, the person that's listening to this podcast. So definitely let me know what you think, what you like about the show, what you don't like about the show, anything at all.Let me know what's going on, where you're at, and maybe I can give you a hand. Maybe I can refer you over to Andrew and get your business meetings fan.You know, get them to be fun, can be fantastic, get them to be effective, so definitely shoot me an email. Timothyreateartpodcast.com Alright, I need to let you get back on with your day. I need to get back on with my day.So go out there and tame that inner critic. Create more than you consume. Try out some improv games at work. You never know, it might work out pretty well.But go out there and make some art for somebody you love yourself. I'll talk with you next time.